“Can I Perform At Your Show?”

Want to know my answer? Read on; there are headings and links and everything…

Introduction
Hammer & Tongue
Allographic Open Mic
Wild Strawberries
Other Voices Spoken Word Cabaret at Edinburgh Festival
Allographic Presents…
Queries

Introduction

This is a question that, as I’m sure you can imagine, I get asked a lot. If you don’t know why I’d get asked that, let me elucidate: I run two spoken word shows a month, ten months of the year in Cambridge (Hammer & Tongue Cambridge and Allographic Open Mic). I run a dedicated spoken word stage all day at Strawberry Fair, Europe’s largest open-air free festival called Wild Strawberries, also in Cambridge. I also run six spoken word cabaret shows a week, every week of the Edinburgh Fringe most years. (I also run the occasional visiting artist/ one-off thing in Cambridge. That’s different – I’ll come on to that later.) They’re all a mix of featured artists and open mic/ slam slots.

I help to programme the Spoken Word element of PBH’s Free Fringe, and to look after and promote the artists we programme. I have been involved in the BBC Edinburgh Fringe Slam in a non-competing role most years it’s been running. I used to run a calendar promoting spoken word events in south-east England and the Midlands. I used to run a combined featured artists-open mic-slam event in Milton Keynes. I’m part of the Bardic Council for Cambridge (though that needs a thorough reviving right now), which I set up, along with the In Other Words Festival (ditto).

And I’m also a performance poet. But it’s probably fair to say that more people know me as an host/ administrator of other people’s performance than as a performer in my own right.

I had a wee whinge yesterday on Facebook about the particular teeth-gritting phenomenon which is people asking me if I can recommend female spoken word artists for their programme. Since most people think of me as female, this is galling, but I consider it an application in humility and thence character-building to recommend other people. (It’s easier when they ask for people who are of a different demographic or geographic location from me but yeah – character-building.) And I do it, because, at the end of the day, I do like talking up the artists that get me excited, and everyone loves being asked their opinion…! ☺

Back to that other question I get asked – “Can I headline/ perform at your show?” I get asked this so many times, that I thought it might be neater to put all the criteria down in one post, and then I can point people at it in future. It’s a question of spoons, you understand… ↑ Top

Hammer & Tongue Cambridge

Not many people seem to realise that all the various H&T franchises are just that – semi-autonomous facets of the whole. The way it works is that we are sent the month’s headliner (October-December, February-June inclusive), who will tour through all the (currently) six locations: Cambridge, Brighton, Hackney, Bristol, Southampton, and Oxford (order depending on how the month falls, day-wise). Once a year or so, we’re asked to a) provide our own list of spoken word artists we’d like to see headline on the H&T circuit, and b) vote on the full list between all of us. Steve Larkin (H&T Boss/ Director/ Founder/ Capo) then books and sends us the gen about each one as they confirm.

Short version: I don’t have any control of who’ll be headlining when.

We programme support acts, and for Cambridge they tend to be local artists/ artists with a strong local connection. (They’re often, but not always, H&T Cambridge slam winners.) There are a few reasons for this. Firstly, it’s part of showing how engaging with the event can see you rise as an artist in terms of platform and respect (that clear path of audience ➔ slammer ➔ support act ➔ headliner – especially as many of our headliners are former/ current slam champions of some kind). Secondly, it’s good to support local talent, for a variety of hopefully obvious reasons (especially if you’re intent on building the local arts scene, as I am). Thirdly, in an utterly mercenary philosophy: local artists are more likely to bring friends/ relatives/ colleagues with them, and we need the money to pay the artists. And I do pay my artists.

Short version: unless you have a local connection and I’ve seen you perform before, I’m excessively unlikely to book you as a support act.

Apart from those two acts, all the other people on stage during H&T Cambridge are slammers and me, and I rarely perform anything other than my usual hosting schtick. (My job here is to keep the audience motivated and excited about the performers.) During the Regional Final, it’s just three rounds of slam – we just don’t have time for anything else!

(Oh, and we also have a “sacrificial slammer” before each new slam round in the heats. They tend to be the winner of the previous heat (again as part of demonstrating that progression thing), and they tend to get free entry (and travel expenses if they’ve come from out of town) and a chance to show off.)↑ Top

Allographic Open Mic

Short bit of background: I started helping out with Hammer & Tongue Cambridge in 2010, having an increasingly central role until February 2012 when I started hosting and programming as well as the other admin. (Frankly, I need to get other people doing the other admin stuff these days – delegating is not my strongest suit.) For a while in late 2010/ early 2011, we were being sent a lot of mostly white, straight, able-bodied, British, cis male performers within a narrow age range as headliners. They were all lovely chaps and very talented, but I found I wanted to be hearing other stories and voices. I’d started suggesting female, queer, of colour, and generally “other” performers as support acts, but that felt wrong too. I wanted to curate my own events that had “other” voices front and centre. I also wanted to run an open mic again. Somewhat haphazardly, I set up Allographic (“nebulous poetry concept” – thanks, Tim Clare) to be a platform for other voices – either as work I published or promoted on stage. It swiftly became an umbrella for all the non-H&T stuff that I do, whether it’s an anthology of local artists, a stage of predominantly female and non-binary performers at a literary festival, a stall of “Poetry To Go” at various festivals and other gatherings, or the “Other Voices” spoken word cabaret at Edinburgh Fringe. Plus other things that crop up from time to time.

Nowadays, the regular open mic (poetry, storytelling, any other spoken word that people want to bring) often (but not always) features guests for short spots who often also lead workshops in the afternoon of the same day. The events are designed to be accessible, in as many different ways as you’d like to use that term, though do we encourage people to bring and perform difficult and challenging work. Allographic open mic is supposed to be a friendly, safe-yet-fierce space for new and/ or difficult work/ performance. The only rules are: don’t kick down, and don’t apologise (unless you’ve kicked down). Part of that accessibility is making it free at the point of entry and encouraging people to donate whatever they can afford/ think the event is worth in order to help with our costs and to at least pay the guest artist’s expenses (travel and subsistence). Any money donated at the workshop goes straight to the workshop leader, and we provide means for them to sell their merchandise, if any.

The “platform for other voices” thing holds true for the guest artists – we want to be deliberately platforming people who are still marginalised: female artists, artists of colour, LGBTQIA+ artists, disabled artists, neurodiverse artists, etc. (We need to be doing better at getting working class voices on the bill to boot, especially those combining the above.) We don’t currently have any external funding, so making this viable for people from outside Cambridgeshire and nearby is… challenging.

Short version: if you want to perform at Allographic open mic as a guest artist (rather than on the open mic – obviously everyone’s welcome to that!), travelling to Cambridge needs to be economically viable for you, and you need to be an “other” voice. If I’ve not seen you perform, I’m relatively easy to persuade with a good bit of footage – audio, or audiovisual for preference. It probably goes without saying, but: I also need to rate your work pretty highly and trust you as an artist.

If you’re up for it, the form is here: http://bit.ly/agoguest ↑ Top

Wild Strawberries

Wild Strawberries is the yearly spoken word (poetry and storytelling) stage at Strawberry Fair in Cambridge. Strawberry Fair is on the first Saturday of every June. A form for expressions of interest for short guest slots and open mic will go out in the next couple of months, and I’ll post the latest here each time it’s ready. If I’ve not seen you perform, I’m easy to persuade with a good bit of footage – audio, or audiovisual for preference. The Fair is free, everyone there is a volunteer, all the payment for what we do pretty much comes out of our own pockets and any fundraisers we’ve done over the months proceeding. We cannot pay anyone. Yes, you can bring merch. No, you can’t have a longer feature set unless you’re either an act that combines poetry/ storytelling and music, you are crazy famous and we’re lucky to have you, or you’re the Bard of Cambridge.

Even shorter version: a ten minute slot at a Cambridge outdoor festival in early June needs to be economically viable for you. ↑ Top

Other Voices Spoken Word Cabaret at Edinburgh Festival

We’re part of PBH’s Free Fringe. All cast members and guests are “other voices”, and there is open mic available to everyone. I am excessively unlikely to book you unless I’ve seen you perform/ you have a compelling bit of footage to wave at me. Again: we’re looking to cover our costs, and we can’t pay anyone, but please do bring merch if we’ve booked you. The forms for featuring/ being in the open mic will be made available by May/ June of any year we’re running it. ↑ Top

Allographic Presents…

This one’s a bit different – this is where I use the Allographic banner to promote a spoken word event that’s touring/ wants to come to Cambridge/ needs curation or collaboration from our “stable” of local spoken word artists. We negotiate publicity, payment, etc. between us. I find you a venue and support artist(s) if needs be. While we obviously favour promoting “other” voices, it’s not a central criterion for the “specials”. Again, it probably goes without saying, but: I also need to rate your work highly and trust you as an artist.

If you’re up for it, the form is here: http://bit.ly/agpresents ↑ Top

Th-th-th-that’s All, Folks!

That’s it, really. Any further questions, please comment here so we can create a kind of FAQs section. ☺ If that’s too exposed, email me (remove the gaps if you’re not a robot) on:

cambridge @ hammerandtongue. com for Hammer & Tongue Cambridge

events @ allographic. co. uk for Allographic events

fay @ fayroberts. co. uk if you’d like to book me as a host or performer (hey, you never know!) ↑ Top

Got Angry, Wrote a Poem

It all started so innocently. I was scrolling through my Facebook feed, when this popped up, courtesy of Hannah Elwick, who ripped it a new one, displaying maximum sarcasm.

“This” (in case you can’t see it via the link above) was a glurgy piece of nostalgia porn misogyny masquerading as poetry.  My emotions shifted through ennui to rage to disgust (and not just because of the font used) pretty quickly, briefly eased by Hannah’s magnificent rant against it.

But this is me, and it was lunchtime, so: riposte poem time:

Text version:

A Poem To Which I Can Relate I remember the corned beef of my Childhood, And the bread that we cut with a knife, When the Children helped with the housework, And the men went to work not the wife. The cheese never needed a fridge, And the bread was so crusty and hot, The Children were seldom unhappy, And the Wife was content with her lot. I remember the milk from the bottle, With the yummy cream on the top, Our dinner came hot from the oven, And not from a freezer; or shop. The kids were a lot more contented, They didn’t need money for kicks, Just a game with their friends in the road, And sometimes the Saturday flicks. … I remember the slap on my backside, And the taste of soap if I swore Anorexia and diets weren’t heard of And we hadn’t much choice what we wore. Do you think that bruised our ego? Or our initiative was destroyed? We ate what was put on the table And I think life was better enjoyed. Author Unknown

A Poem To Which WE Can Relate artwork by Eddie Holly We remember the old beef of Childhood, The silence that cut like a knife Where Children were seen and not heard And blows clamped down marital strife The Wife could not claim her possessions, Worked for nothing in kitchen and bed; The Children were gifted this vision: That’s your future until you are dead. We remember the Childhood diseases That took all but lucky or strong Darwinianism in action And no-one to challenge our wrongs. We gazed at the chasm dividing The have-nots from those haves who strode Over huge tracts of land that were paid for By theft, tax, and History’s goad. Those who were beaten learned nothing Except how to govern by fear Girls were pressed into corsets and wasted away You won’t learn if you don’t try to hear The privileged never do question From whence comes their food and their board You whine incognito as we change the world With your death rattle justly ignored. Fay Roberts

The beautiful picture of Ruby Rose in the Westinghouse style was created by the ridiculously talented Eddie Holly.

Feel free to share if you like. A surprising number of people already have, which both weirds me out and gratifies me (yay! imposter syndrome!), and the original Facebook version is here.

UPDATE: Bloody hell - there's a longer version. Turns out the ... bit in the one to which I responded is to indicate where there were more lines, but the perpetrator pinched them out in order to be able to fit the meat of the “poem” on a single side of A4.

Women's Work

I was asked, back last year, to perform in a show in February 2013 called “Women’s Work” – an all-female line-up of poets, musicians, a dancer, a storyteller, and anything else we could make happen.  It was in aid of the Cambridge Rape Crisis Centre (CRCC) and, as far as I know, our donated time, effort and merchandise raised good money for a good cause.

Alice Nicholls, who organised the original, asked us to come back and, in slightly different company, we are about to do a very similar thing again in the same place, on 1st November at The Fountain, Cambridge.

I posted the following on my Facebook wall a few hours ago:

“Have just finished putting together a creative fanzine of local women’s work with the aim of raising money for CRCC, featuring work by: Alice Nicholls, Ashley Fox, Carla Keen, Cathy Dunbar, Elaine Ewart, Emma Ormond, Hollie McNish poetry, J.S.Watts, Kay Goodridge, Leanne Moden, Netta Chachamu, and Nikki Marrone.

“Special praise and thanks go to: Leanne, for help, support, and co-production; Carla for a remarkable and inspiring cover design; Alice for getting us all together in aid of CRCC in the first place and, of course, to the Centre itself, for all its amazing work.

“You’ll be able to get your own copy at Women’s Work: A Celebration of Female Performers on 1st November at The Fountain Cambridge.”

I was stoked.  Not only had we produced this in record time, but it was rather beautiful, and will hopefully raise another little bit of money for a very worthy cause.  In addition, I’d managed to say “yes” to someone who’d offered to help.  I even delegated tasks and everything (don’t faint!)…  Yes, we’ll make it available online, but only after the “launch” of the physical version on 1^st November.  I’d also broken the back of fear around producing another Allographic anthology (I may go into this at some other point on this blog; who knows…) by just getting on and doing it.  Expect more goodness in the near future.

Anyway, I was then asked (by a friendly, feminist, cis-male friend) on Facebook if there was any justification in having the aforementioned pamphlet raising funds for CRCC featuring only work from female artists (takes action from both sides of an equation to break down inequality, etc.).  Without revealing who this was, and in the interests of keeping everyone informed who’d like to be, opening the debate to anyone who’d like to get engaged with it, here’s the justification (warning: potentially tl;dr):

Firstly, it was meant to be a fund-raising publication of work from the female performers who would be appearing on the night (people seem more likely to donate if they get something back; people like to buy stuff by people they’ve seen; this was a good solution to combine forces rather than providing separate merch so that potential punters had to choose between artists; not everyone on the bill would have merchandise to offer for the donation stall in any case).

But the women from the 1st November gig didn’t respond in sufficient numbers (for a start, not everyone had the right genre of material to go into print) to fill a decent-sized pamphlet, so we expanded it to those who’d been in the previous show, and then to other notable feminists from the local area (Rebel Arts Women’s Radio), etc.

I decided to stick with female contributors for several reasons:

1. It was the original remit as the performers in the show(s) were all female.

I’m not saying that only women can talk about feminism, or sexism, or rape (which involves all genders in all parts of the issue).  Not in the slightest.  However, the CRCC is run by women for women and girls, the night chose to highlight the work of women, and I chose to follow that theme with the accompanying product.

2. The title of the show is “Women’s Work” - producing a pamphlet entitled “Women’s Work” filled with work by women seemed pretty logical.

3. It’s still very much (in fact, more so now than previously) the central tenet of Allographic to provide showcases for “other words, other voices”; since women’s creative work is still, to my mind, under-exposed in many (if not most) fields, I figured that retaining that theme would fit nicely with Allographic’s core position.

4. You know what? Still, and all too often, even strong women get stuck in that “so pleasantly assertive it’s borderline apologetic” mode, so why not positively celebrate the creative work of women rather than just emphasise the nature of victimhood associated with rape, and emphasise not only the fight of feminism against the negative things that happen to women but also in raising the profile of the positive things that women do?  This is something that local homeless charity FLACK does particularly well, for example.

Was the person who opened this debate with me worried about that notion that feminism is seen as anti-men rather than pro-women?  The thing is: to be feminist is to be pro-people; to raise people up who are in a position of being discriminated against is to elevate the whole human race and to improve the lives of those who’ve just been stepped up to as well.  Feminism is a human rights movement while women are still in a worse position than men.  When the lot of women across the globe is as good as that of men, I will no longer need to call myself a feminist, and I’ll hang up my spurs with a smile.

I want the need for “positive discrimination”* to be dead and buried, having done its job and been retired. But, until that halcyon day when 51% of people in the limelight are women, I’m going to keep trying to positively promote the creative work of women, LGBTQI* people, people of colour, disabled people, vulnerably housed people, and anyone else in the margins until I no longer need to.

Have at it, interwebs.


________________

* A friend has just mentioned that “positive discrimination” should more accurately be called “positive action” - I like!

Political Correction

So, it would appear that I’ve been ranting about the lack of diversity on the spoken word scene. Again.

Why?

Well, let’s get some groundwork down, some initial assumptions out of the way:

1. Diversity is important and A Good Thing™. Shh. I’ll get onto that later. Just bear in mind that it is, that I’m right, and that those groups who vociferously oppose this notion are wrong, ‘kay?
   
   
2. The actual spoken word scene is diverse - in the open mics and collectives and organisations and workshops there are LOADS of people whose story and perspective is not that of the white, cis-gendered, straight, able-bodied male (WCGSABM).
   
   
3. What I’m talking about here is the visible spoken word scene - the headliners, the A-listers, the Names, the ones who even people who aren’t on the scene, even those who otherwise confess despising poetry have heard of. The people who reliably sell out gigs, who tend to get interviewed, and reviewed, and paid attention to.
   
   

Okay? Okay, then I’ll begin. My (increasingly detailed) essay will be broken down into a series of headings:

The Importance of Diversity

Making The Scene More Diverse

With some sub-headings in between...

(If I use a term I’m not sure that y’all will know, you’ll see it underlined with a dotted line (this is how Blogger does it, apparently) and you’ll know that you can hover over it with your mouse and it’ll tell you a definition of that term. Yes, you may argue with the definition if you like. I may even change it... :) )

So, why is diversity important, then?

Okay, fair enough, I said I’d get onto that, didn’t I? Here are my thoughts on this:

It’s just more fair...; it’s proportionally representative; and it’s aspirational and more artistically (and politically) viable.

It’s just more fair...

Okay, this is just my initial, gut reaction - it’s not fair that some people seem to get to play and others don’t, regardless of merit, talent, innovation, hard work. Quite apart from the fact that I’m in a couple of the under-represented groups, the whole “but why can’t everyone have a go?!” thing is something that’s been part of my mental makeup for a very long time.

In case you weren’t aware, yes - performance poetry is subject to the same kind of tokenism and disproportionate representation as, say, comedy. You know those panel shows where it looks like a row of white, cis-gendered, straight, able-bodied men with - if we’re lucky - someone stuck on the end who’s of colour, or female, or maybe out as queer . Hey, sometimes you get a female comedian of colour, or a lesbian. For a while we had Eddie Izzard as the Token TV but, well, he stopped dressing up in public and is all focused on his acting career so we don’t see him performing that role these days. Anyway, in comedy when you’ve wiggled a woman into the line-up it’s apparently called “token tits". Charming. I hate to think what the equivalent is for people of colour or non-heteronormative “lifestyle”.

Excuse me for a moment - I just freely used the words “heteronormative” and “lifestyle” and feel a little queasy... Okay, that’s better...

I have been asked, in the past, to perform in shows because “otherwise it’s going to be a bit of a sausage-fest.” Seriously? I mean, maybe your heart was in the right place, but I really wish you’d told me it was because I’m a good poet, or that my style or delivery or content made for a more varied line-up, because one woman in a five-poet line-up is not balanced in terms of gender... that’s maths, right there. (Yes, I still took the gigs.)

It’s proportionally representative

While the performance poetry community may indeed be small, you’d expect opportunities and talent to fall in a demographic Bell-curve - i.e. roughly equal numbers of male and female performers, and proportions of other factors that roughly mirror the UK community at large. When we’re talking about the visible big names, these proportions are WAY out of whack.

Name ten famous (living, performative) poets - go on, now, and without thinking about it consciously. How many of them are female? How many of them are of colour? How many of them are out queer? Add your own “minority” group status of choice and check your list for that. Is it in proportion to society’s general figures?

If they’re actually more represented in performance poetry’s higher echelons than in society, let me know - I’m intrigued!

(It should also be pointed out that my scientific research on this is, well, scanty - where are the lists of performance poets? Well, there’s one in Wikipedia, and after that it’s all lists of other individual’s opinions - find me stuff!

It’s aspirational and more artistically (and politically) viable

If spoken word is to be taken seriously, it’s got to, between us, represent the feelings and lives and experiences and concerns of everyone, so they can relate to it. And if spoken word is to help unite society, it needs to tell the stories of the people who aren’t being heard to the people who have the power to make things happen - one of the reasons for art is to jink past people’s defences and show them what the world looks like from someone else’s perspective. And if spoken word is to be effective for change, it needs to show the dispossessed that all kinds of people can take power through art.

And if spoken word is already taken seriously, then it needs to be demonstrating role models that represent everyone.

I can strive to be as intersectionally-aware as the next liberal white cis-gendered person who has no visible disabilities, but I can only assume that my difficulties growing up a genderqueer bisexual woman in an atmosphere of no visible (positive, proactive) role models are echoed by my trans* or disabled contemporaries, or those of colour, during their growing up.

So how can we make sure that the opportunities and the talents represented on the scene are properly diverse?

Gah. Good question. Okay, there are several strands to this, as I see it (not necessarily in a linear order of priority or chronology, but potentially in a wash, rinse, repeat series of widening cycles):

1. Demonstrating the value of under-heard stories to those who have the power to raise their profile

2. Normalising the “other” by raising the profile of “minority” performers

3. Raising the aspirations of traditionally marginalised voices by providing diverse role models

Again, let's take these in order:

Demonstrating the value of under-heard stories to those who have the power to raise their profile

This thought makes me feel a bit squirmy. It is because I have trouble with the notion that the power sits in the hands of the privileged and that we need to wait for them to “get it”. Having said that, I’m pragmatic enough to know that this is important. So this step involves finding ways to show promoters the importance of voices they're not considering.

I don’t just mean the big festivals, the big venues, the people with funding, the people you’ve heard of. I mean everyone who puts shows on and publishes work (written or performed) anywhere ever. At all. From the tiniest open-mic-with-features all the way up to, I dunno, stadia events promoters.

It’s everyone’s responsibility. All the time. It’s not like it isn’t happening already, but more needs to be done. e.g. Glastonbury and Apples & Snakes are pretty good at proportional opportunities for poets of colour, female poets, and queer poets, but they’ve arguably some way to go on disabled and trans* poets, and poets over the age of 30…

The other reason I feel a bit squirmy about this notion is that it runs the risk of ghettoising “minority” performers - of making a “special case” for something that should be second nature. But I guess that kind of conscious thought is going to have to suffice until... oh, here’s my next sub-heading:

Normalising the “other” by raising the profile of “minority” performers

How do I put this? I, personally, don't want to have to do this. I don't want diversity to be something I have to think about because I want to live in a society where it's not an issue, and where people are given opportunities based on merit – hard work and talent – not on societal appearance. But the only way this is going to happen is if “visibility” of those not currently being heard is ubiquitous.

Mainstream media still seems to think that the experiences and opinions of WCGSABMs is the norm. We need to break them of the notion that anything other is “exotic”. e.g. media such as new-generation Doctor Who and other associated titles have put in sterling work on this with regard to sexuality – continuous images of not only fully-integrated, healthy, functional non-heterosexual beings, but the acceptance of such by those around them.

I also want to make something else clear here – I have nothing against the stories of WCGSABMs, I just want to hear more of what everyone else has to say...

Increasing normalisation hopefully then creates demand and subtle pressure on other media and promoters to showcase “other” stories, which leads us reasonably neatly onto:

Raising the aspirations of traditionally marginalised voices by providing diverse role models

Is it possible that part of the reason that we don’t see as many female, (openly) queer, trans*, disabled poets, or those of colour, is that they do not consider performance poetry “their” sphere? Or is it that they are conditioned against ambition because some message or other has taken hold that they are not worthy to share their words or thoughts or opinions or feelings, not worthy to take applause and adulation and congratulation? After all, speaking from my own conditioning and training - nice girls aren’t supposed to put themselves forward, raise their voices, get in the spotlight on their own. Sing in choirs, for sure, sing someone else’s words in aid of something, but not, you know, just for the sheer glory and adrenalin-spiking fear-joy of shining alone. Tut, etc.

The notion I’m driving at with this sub-heading is, in case you hadn’t grasped it, that we need to tell them that they can be poets, and that they can perform, and that they can still be true to themselves and do these things well. That talent and hard work should be the only barriers to doing this. And that this may mean raising flagpoles of people visibly representing the marginalised voices and saying: “these people are awesome... oh, and they happen to be [insert non-WCGSABM category/ies here], and that story is just as important.

I want to have this conversation, out loud and in public, and I want to know if I’m wrong and that the visible spoken word world is representatively diverse, or if you have an exceptionally compelling argument for why diversity isn’t important on the spoken word scene.

Dependent on the comments people add to this, the text of this “article” may change. If you have a go at me for being a middle-class, liberal, well-educated white person who hasn’t checked her privilege/ is being patronising, you may have a tougher go of changing my mind, but do try, if you think it’s important...